Here is a link to a site that has a page showing Belgian proofs and what they mean and when the marks were in use. There may be other proof marks under the forearm, but you'd need to remove the forearm and dismount the barrels to see them. 2 mm so if I'm reading them correctly, it is kind of hard to make out what numbers they are, your bore is slightly smaller than the modern nominal 12 gauge which be 18.5mm. I also see what looks like the numerals 18.0 this would be the bore diameter in millimeters rounded to the nearest. The 'candle stick' looking thing under the ELG proof mark is called the Perron, it's a stylized representation of a famous land mark in Liege. I don't have any listing of dates older than 1910 for who used this mark and when it was in use. Pre 1877 this mark had a crown over a capitol letter instead of a star, so your gun post dates 1877. The star over the capitol M is the mark of the controller of proof. Be sure to remove the rust with a little steel wool, neutralize it with Baking Soda and re-oil it.Click to expand.The ELG with a star inside of a circle is the mark of final proof of the Liege proofing house, post 1893 a crown was added to the top of the oval to denote compliance with German proof laws, so your gun pre dates 1893. When it starts to rust a Damascus barrel will show some pattern. Vinegar may work slowly, you may need a couple of application. If you are curious you can clean and oil from the inside of a barrel and apply some acid to it. No pattern may mean it is steel although the original pattern could be covered by rebluing or be worn off. If the pattern breaks across the rib it is likely to be true Damascus steel. If there is any remaining pattern and it continues in an unbroken fashion across the center rib it is probably a faux finish. You may be able to tell if your gun is Damascus or faux Damascus by looking under the forearm. Damascus was more costly, it was hand made. It has steel barrels w/ a faux Damascus Finish, normally an extra cost option over blued steel at the time. It is engraved so it may be worth more than yours ($400.00 ?) if yours is not engraved. You'd have to compare it to your gun to see if it is similar. ![]() It was made by Pieper (pronounced 'peeper' I believe). Parker (the topic of this thread) and Belgian Tradename guns "None were of high quality when new (100 years ago and to what abuse the gun has been subjected we have no way of knowing), have little value, and most should not be used today, with any load." I stand by my statement that in reference to T. Model A Damascus - $45.00 (Krupp steel Model R in 1909 - $48.75)īaker Batavia Leader AE Decarbonized Steel - $31.50 Model B Twist - $37.35 ( "Flui-Tempered" steel Model S in 1909 - $35) "Finest genuine crystal barrel steel" - $10.95 New England American Hammergun "Made by a new England gun company, one of the oldest and best makers in America." (Possibly Crescent) Improved 1908 Model New England Hammerless with "900-fine double refined gun barrel steel" - $11.95 2 Damascus - $56.00.$80 with Crown steel or Chain Damascus AE $95 Barker Hammergun 2-Blade Royal Damascus Finish - $12.45 Without Pics I'd estimate a Belgium shotgun in good condition would be valued in the two hundred dollar range (as you may have guessed, they don't have a stellar reputation in the US which keeps down their value, except to you of course).ġ908 Sears Roebuck & Co. Your guns may have a mfgs Trademark on it, see. You may be able to figure out a mfg date range from the marks it has/doesn't have. The Proof Marks which you mention can be seen at. You have been firing your gun with 'modern', ammo which hasn't changed much since before 1900. Dates may be represented as a range that spans decades, centuries, dynasties, or periods and may include qualifiers such as c. Sherman Bell tested many Belgium Wallhangers at US Proof pressures. Double-Barreled Flintlock Shotgun Place Paris (Object made in) Date Dates are not always precisely known, but the Art Institute strives to present this information as consistently and legibly as possible. It is common to have old guns re-Proofed in England. ![]() They were able to sell their guns at lower prices since the Belgian labor costs at the time was well below the US costs even after Tariffs were applied to their importation. It was a well known and respected mfg that made high end models. ![]() Henri Pieper is the most likely Mfg of your gun. Sears and Montgomery Wards were probably the biggest US distributors and couldn't afford to ruin their reputation by selling guns that would blow up.Īlmost all US Damascus Barrels (the pressure containing part of the gun) were made in Belgium as were many later steel barrels. I am not sure why everyone "knows" that Belgium guns are poorly made and are unsafe to shoot when they provide almost no documentation.Īll Belgium guns were Proof Tested and marked as such.
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